In our Sunday Morning Showdown, two of our authors clash in an epic standoff for the ages. Solid assessments and crazy exaggeration are welcome (so don’t hesitate to participate with the fun in the comments area beneath). Also, don’t neglect to tell us which watches you’d like to see destroyed/profusely commended one week from now. We’ll attempt and highlight as a large number of our readers’ decisions as we can. This week presents a problem. With the costs among Seiko and Grand Seiko meeting, our essayists consider how this affects the alternatives. Do you part with your money for the best quality Spring Drive jumper from Seiko, or go in through the section point with a comparable Grand Seiko?
Specifically, we are focussing on the and . It’s a serious situation that Seiko has snookered itself in. How could we arrive at the point that the commonly financial plan well disposed Seiko alternative arrives at the purpose of infringing on the domain of its exceptional greater sibling, Grand Seiko? Without a doubt, this thrashings the object of parting these brands’ progressive system to cover the two finishes of the market?
Seiko Vs. Stupendous Seiko
This is the place where you come in to tell us your position on the Japanese giant’s current valuing technique. In one manner, Seiko is quite possibly the most accomplished brands in watches. That, yet Seiko has a long and celebrated history of creating imaginative jump watches. The Seiko SNR029 could be viewed as the summit of Seiko’s ability refined into the ideal companion for a profound plunge under the surface. With that is a cost of €6,100 that represents that ability. Yet, let’s not fail to remember this Seiko SNR029 is produced on similar line as its elder sibling. It even gets the praised Spring Drive movement.
On the other hand, Grand Seiko itself is viewed as the exceptional wristwatch outfit under the Seiko-Epson umbrella. Accordingly, any Grand Seiko watch gets the VIP treatment of being created in the place where there is the Rising Sun. The devotion to any Grand Seiko is at a level most very good quality Swiss brands could just want. Also, gradually and consistently, the Grand Seiko marque is becoming inseparable from high exactness, comfort, and quality. Indeed, even still, with a particularly tall roof at Grand Seiko, would you simply like to go for the section level with the SBGA231 at €7,200? Or on the other hand do you take the jump for the extravagant accessories plunge watch alternatives like the SBGH257 ?
Back in black
Before we lose trace of what’s most important, let’s investigate how our dark black stunning Showdown unfurled. Indeed, even with the recency predisposition of the IWC, the votes came flooding in for the Omega Speedmaster Dark Side of the Moon. An exceptionally proper 69% took the fired religion exemplary to the moon and back over the IWC Pilot’s Chronograph “Tribute To 3705”. Despite the fact that there were a lot of vocal allies for the IWC in the comments area, the DSotM fans kept covert to project their vote.
Now we’re all made up for lost time, let’s direct our concentration toward this week’s between brand bust-up.
Jorg — Seiko Prospex LX SNR029J1
Welcome to the Sunday Morning Showdown social examination. Today’s theme? The force of brand discernment. In particular, is there motivation to pick a Seiko over Grand Seiko when the costs are inside striking distance of each other?
First up, when Ben recommended this coordinate, I was marginally reluctant. My first response was, “who in their correct psyche could at any point pick the Seiko over the Grand Seiko for the equivalent cash?” Typically Seiko offers the best value for-money for the economical purchaser. Lately, that mantra is floating to some degree into Grand Seiko’s space. Yet, when the two line up on an evaluating grid, you need to address whether the Seiko is not any more a fish out of the water, however a fish dispatched into the stratosphere. The retail cost, in any case, the Seiko needs to truly sell the amount of its parts compellingly. What’s more, that’s the sort of challenge to brace one’s loins.
The Seiko Prospex LX SNR029J1 is essential for Seiko’s tip top arrangement of jumping watches. The Propex LX line was presented during Baseworld in 2019 as a progression of six titanium jumpers with a similar 44.8mm case. All fueled by Seiko’s acclaimed Spring Drive development. Three of the six models have a dark covered case and are provided on silicone and calfskin ties. The three standard titanium models come on a coordinating titanium arm band. What’s more, out of the three, the SNR029 is the one that has the most appeal to me. Its stylish helps me to remember the natural Marinemaster 300, a notable Seiko plan that I love. Since the presentation two years prior, Seiko presented two restricted release models; including the dark green SNR029, which we examine today.
Designed by Ken Okuyama
For the plan of the SNR029, Seiko brought in the assistance of acclaimed Japanese architect Ken Okuyama. Okuyuma planned the Ferrari Enzo during his time at Pininfarina. I could summarize a greater amount of his vehicle plans, Ben, yet come on…the Enzo represents itself.
Ben: I am on the ropes here, Jorg — the Enzo is my fantasy Ferrari. I know the Ferrari Enzo Ferrari, so great they named it twice, created a ruckus among the car press. Yet, I think of it as a particularly famous plan that is completely meriting the moniker.
I am an offspring of the Testarossa age, however the Enzo is a thing of sheer magnificence. So credit to Seiko for acquiring the amazing originator for the advancement of the Prospex LX line. Okuyuma’s fundamental assignment was to build up a case plan that fits the idea of light thinking about the case aspects remarkably. The LX in the series’s name comes from lux, the Latin word for light. Furthermore, by making a special case plan, the SNR029 isn’t just a stage up from the Marinemaster 300, however it additionally begins to appear your clear “Grand” Seiko SBGA231.
On top of that, Okuyuma was entrusted to plan a comfortable case regardless of the 44.8mm×15.7mm measurements. What’s more, in Robert-Jan’s audit , you can peruse that Okuyama prevailing with regards to making a case that does precisely that. I need to say; I love the vibes of the case. The sharp lines and the lovely hauls give the case an incredible presence. Another element I like over the Grand Seiko is the plan of the arm band. Seiko has gained notoriety for not making the most excellent or energizing arm bands in the business. Be that as it may, for the SNR029, Seiko hit it out of the recreation center. It might show up as a straightforward three-interface development, however the level sides and steep bends play with light and shadow even with a brushed finish.
The genuine heavyweight
Speaking of completing: Grand Seiko is known for its prevalence in this field. I’ll spare you the feared Z-word, yet I will make reference to this completing is likewise applied to this SNR029J1. The combination of the extraordinary arm band, case plan, and completing makes them lean towards the Seiko. I’ve astounded even myself, as I felt overcoming the brand acknowledgment of Grand Seiko was insurmountable.
Now to convey the last blows: My first hit is with the hands — hour and moment hands of Grand Seiko jump watches to be more exact. In the event that there is one explanation most importantly for favoring the Seiko and saving €1,100, it must be the whacky GS hands. The SBGA231 has a short fat hour hand and a disproportionally long moment hand in a more elaborate style than current games watch. A subsequent strike is a hypothetical one with us being work area jumpers, yet the water-opposition of the Seiko is 300 meters where the Grand Seiko has a water-obstruction of “only” 200 meters.
Ben: ISO 6425 specifies at least 100 meters for a jump watch, Jorg, so we’re both free. No should be unimportant, I’m sure both can withstand a couple of sprinkles of art beer.
And what might be said about titanium itself? Regularly a complaint is the not exactly consoling mass of titanium compared to a similar volume of steel. In any case, with regards to the Seiko SNR029, it’s closer in weight to a customary steel jumper than the titanium Grand Seiko SBGA231. The Seiko weighs 162 grams, though the Grand Seiko comes in at just 137 grams. The SNR029 weighs as much as the Rolex Submariner and Omega Seamaster Diver 300M, both in steel. It figures out how to be a jump watch with a lot of wrist presence that’s no heavier than the most amazing aspect the Swiss biz.
Spring Drive Caliber 5R65
Lastly is the Seiko Spring Drive Caliber 5R65. Fundamentally, it’s a similar development as the Grand Seiko Caliber 9R65 that controls your SBGA231. The lone contrasts between the two are the completion of the rotor connect and the state of the rotor. As both are securely concealed under their titanium case backs, the degree of completing isn’t unequivocally on show, so not a factor. I love Spring Drive developments for their shrewd strategy bringing about incomparable exactness. I continue to battle with one visual obstacle, and that’s the force save marker on the dial. As somebody who likes clean dials, it’s a component I could manage without. Nonetheless, both our decisions choose for show the leftover force notwithstanding the programmed winding.
With specs spread out on the table, it’s now an ideal opportunity to examine the force of marking. At a rundown cost of €6,100, the SNR029 pushes the limits of what Seiko can pull off. It’s not a value we haven’t seen previously however. The new 55th Anniversary jumpers come in for a couple hundred Euros more, so it’s not totally outside Seiko’s wheelhouse. All things considered, it’s a major wad of cash for a brand that likewise has Propex models that cost one-10th of this watch’s list price.
As an outcome, it is not difficult to come up with a rundown of Seiko options I’d rather spend my cash on and save some mixture. In any case, that’s not how our Sunday Morning Showdown functions, and I trust I’ve presented my defense for the Seiko SNR029 over the Grand Seiko SBGA231. Also, truly, Ben, I don’t know the force of the Grand Seiko brand is sufficient to exceed the sheer pedal to the metal presentation of this Seiko.
Ben — Grand Seiko SBGA231
Yes, you’re right, Jorg. This was a battle that a psycho might have just contrived. What’s more awful, I might have made this much harder for you by picking the . This Grand Seiko has a retail cost of €6,200, so it is just €100 more than your Seiko. I feel frustrated about the salesman attempting to disclose that one to a bewildered client in the Seiko shop. In any case, in light of a legitimate concern for reasonableness and to dissipate our audience’s rage, it seemed well and good to even the score. This battle just encompasses titanium Spring Drive jump watches. The SBGA229 has a tempered steel case, though the Grand Seiko SBGA231 has a titanium case to coordinate the SNR029.
Jorg: If it would have been the steel SBGA229, I would have unquestionably required assistance from the best Seiko salesperson in the world.
Even with the debilitation of an extra €1,100 for the Grand Seiko, I am as yet feeling certain with my decision. In addition to the fact that it is the door into proficient Grand Seiko watches, yet the appearance is likewise nearer in format to natural plunge watches. I get that the 4 o’clock crown is inseparable from Seiko since the Silver Wave , however it’s not generally the favored choice. The strange crown may improve comfort, yet it projects an abnormal outline that makes it less versatile. The SBGA231 gives that commonality the 3 o’clock crown and streaming crown guards.
All in the details
With the name Grand Seiko, even its entrance level pieces conveys some cachet. What has the effect may not be as in your face as the SNR029 — I’m actually faltering from that Enzo name drop, incidentally. However, it’s in the subtleties that lift the GS over the Seiko. The profound knurling on the bezel has an expert vibe that’s material yet elegant. It’s valuable for sea-going capers as well as mixes into above surface journeys. The evaluation 5 titanium is alluded to as “high-intensity” by Grand Seiko to flag the composite is more safe than the normal titanium compound to thumps and corrosion.
You may have made progress to stay away from the Z-word, however I am simply going to say it now — Zaratsu! Maybe you were forestalling the eye-moves from the perusers, yet I have a sneaking doubt that the meager condition of Zaratsu cleaning on the SNR029 was scarcely worth the notice. In my eyes, I can just notification the tin-plate completing style on the drag angles of your Seiko.
Jorg: The full length of the case really includes Zaratsu cleaning. In combination with the enormous parts that have a brushed completion, the Zaratsu-cleaned parts truly stand apart pleasantly. Obviously, I’m not hesitant to utilize it.
Conversely, the SBGA231 has sufficient utilization of this amazing procedure on numerous features, including the bracelet’s between joins. The total of the case sides are the place where it comes into its own, demonstrating the value knock was great. In addition to the fact that it is a satisfying tasteful, however it’s a withering craftsmanship the Japanese watchmakers are keeping up for ages to come.
Advanced cautioning ahead for notices of the Z-word
Sallaz cleaning, as it is casually alluded to in Europe, starts in Swiss watchmaking. In any case, the procedure is only here and there utilized because of the serious preparing needed to dominate the exchange. Basically, a tin plate turns at high fires up with the watchmaker applying the suitable power against the component’s surface. The outcome is to accomplish bending free surfaces that show up as intelligent as a mirror. However, that goes no place to depict the ability engaged with controlling the machine’s RPM, getting the right point, and basically realizing when to stop. In Taro Tanaka’s “The Grammar of Design,” reflect cleaning was a command set among numerous different specifications to give predictable quality at Seiko. No place is the preferred in plain view over with the Grand Seiko SBGA231.
Jorg: You are truly going all out Zaratsu for the success, aren’t you Ben?
I get it; it’s a dirty move to bring the broad utilization of Zaratsu of the Grand Seiko into the condition. However, it shows that even on the low-end size of Grand Seiko, the completed outcome is refined as all that Seiko can focus on. With that refinement comes a somewhat more wearable 44.2mm×14mm case that wears slimmer and lighter. While it comes in a lot lighter than the Seiko, the hand-completed nature of the SBGA231 gives the consolation of value without the requirement for superfluous haul. The metallic bezel with ADLC covering is maybe the solitary zone where I feel the more expensive alternatives in the Grand Seiko range begin to show their value. A ceramic bezel would not go not right, yet this bezel’s appearance in any event intently looks like the sheen of ceramic.
Wait, how much?
Ok, so I may have conceived this coordinate, yet it was out of unadulterated interest. €6,100 for a Seiko is as yet something I’m thinking hard about. You’ve put in some extraordinary work to engage the citizens on legitimizing the Seiko, Jorg, yet I can’t resist the opportunity to feel the promoting executive sniffled and hit an additional zero while writing up the cost of the SNR029. The lone thing that closes down my hypothesis is the now steady value climb we see across the two sides of the Seiko brands.
This now, as far as I might be concerned, just serves for the SBGA231. This could be the last stronghold of expectation for Grand Seiko, being a definitive in moderate top of the line proficient evaluation wristwatches. With it comes all the GS sayings you have figured out how to anticipate. Also, this specific SBGA231 shows every one of those critical highlights with an inconspicuous dull green dial and brilliant contacts with the logo. Taking that leap toward the Grand Seiko appears to be an easy decision for me.
Jorg: I need to say this truly is a precarious one. The way in to this is in the view of the Seiko brand. Much the same as you, I’m battling to discover reasons why Seiko would enter the valuing limit of Grand Seiko? It’s the reach that Grand Seiko has contended energetically to build up. Also, the difficult work has paid off on the grounds that a consistently developing number of individuals will presently truly consider a Grand Seiko over a Rolex or an Omega.
The brand is a lot of zeroed in on craftsmanship and specialized greatness and that center reverberates with watch lovers including myself. What’s more, it’s explicitly this all around created picture of needing to be the awesome, makes it difficult to acknowledge that its more modest sibling Seiko could without much of a stretch be in a similar region. Seiko, a brand that has the center of its watches in the €500–€1,500 value range. What’s more, they need to compete with the best?
And on numerous useful levels, they can — not at all since they profit by Grand Seiko. The SNR029 shows precisely that. Furthermore, with regards to the plan, I really lean toward it. The case shape, the hands, and the wristband make it look better compared to the SBGA231. So the head unquestionably says Seiko, yet my heart is intensely addressing what’s going on here. That’s why I am interested to discover what our perusers think, Ben.
Ben: I concur, Jorg. This is one we can present the defense for every inclination ad nauseum. Yet, I am currently quick to hear from the majority on their stance.
Is it actually a simple win for the Grand Seiko? Or does the Seiko win your heart. Vote now and offer your considerations in the comments below.